Non-Primary Update

This is a suggestion  for a Major TF2-Update (or Updates, if this Update is separated for each class, so then these 9 <Class> Non-Primary Updates would be served separately each N months: Scout NP-Update, Spy NP-Update, etc. etc.).

It is mostly about the non-primary slots (secondary & melee).

And a possibility for the TF2-players to play some gimmicky/fun/crazy loadouts with the weapons that are considered as an additional weapons/tools, not the primary weapon to kill enemies.

That's why these loadouts could be used as already-balanced loadouts. (Exception, maybe, is the Medieval Gamemode, where these loadouts would bring an imbalance gameplay. Probably.)

Possible checkbox in the <Class> loadout menu.

But are all classes in the same category? Let's see! (There is a bit of [combinatorics]math below too.)

1.)  Some of the classes (6=5+Engineer, who will be analyzed additionally in the subsection 1a; all other 3 classes will be analyzed in the section 2; all possible issues will be discussed in the section 3) could use their secondaries/melees instead of the primary/secondary weapons.

Classes, which could use it properly without(?) a game-balancing:

Scout/Soldier/Pyro/Heavy/Engineer(?)/Sniper.

The possible schemes are these:

• 2 2 3 (secondary+secondary+melee→ s+s+m further in the text) 
• 1 3 3 (primary+melee+melee → p+m+m further in the text)
• 2 3 3 (secondary+melee+melee → s+m+m further in the text) [= 3 2 3, same]
• 3 3 3 (melee+melee+melee → m+m+m further in the text).

Examples:

Scout with a Pistol in the Primary Slot, Bonk! in  the Secondary slot and any Melee.

OR: Heavy with a Shotgun in Primary Slot, some Melee in the Secondary slot and another Melee in the Melee slot.

OR: Soldier with 3 Melees in all 3 slots.

- - -

How much additional possible loadouts this would add (here: 's' for the 'Secondary', 'm' for the 'Melee')?

[If some secondary/melee weapon is used, let's not count it twice/three times. Though it is optional, probably, for the Devs to add something like a 'Bonk!+Bonk!+Bat'-option too, just for the player's fun. ]

• Scout: 7s*6s*8m/2! + 5p*8m*7m/2! + 7s*8m*7m/2! + 8m*7m*6m/3! = totally 560, plus to the existing 280 loadouts;
• Soldier: 10s*9s*7m/2! + 8p*7m*6m/2! + 10s*7m*6m/2! + 7m*6m*5m/3! = totally 728, plus to the existing 560 loadouts;
• Pyro: 9s*8s*9m/2! + 6p*9m*8m/2!+ 9s*9m*8m/2! + 9m*8m*7m/3! =  totally 948, plus to the existing 486 loadouts;
• Heavy: 7s*6s*7m/2! + 5p*7m*6m/2! + 7s*7m*6m/2! + 7m*6m*5m/3! =  totally 434, plus to the existing 245 loadouts;
• Sniper: 6s*5s*4m/2! + 7p*7m*6m/2! +   6s*4m*3m/2! + 4m*3m*2m/3! = totally 247, plus to the existing 168 loadouts;
• Engineer(?): 3s*2s*5m/2! +6p*5m*4m/2! + 3s*5m*4m/2! + 5m*4m*3m/3! = totally 115, plus, to the existing 90 loadouts.

1a.) (?)Engineer...Well...

How to combine the  Gunslinger with other Melees? Which Sentry would be placed then? Destroy the Sentry if another Melee is chosen?! Or is it just not allowed to place another Sentry while one is already placed? Or is it allowed Mini-Sentry with a usual Sentry (this case is unbalanced!)?  

If the s+m+m, p+m+m and m+m+m schemes are excluded, then only the scheme s+s+m is the only available one (adds 15 additional loadouts).

The issue is reconsidered again in the section 3).

2.) OK. What about Demoman, Medic and Spy? Let's analyze them!

2a.)  Demoman.

He has 6 primaries, 7 secondaries and 8 melees.  But his Primary and Secondary slots aren't about 'This Grenade Launcher is the main weapon and this Sticky Launcher is not'. So...

Hmmm...probably, the possible schemes would be these:

1 1 3 (p+p+m)*

1 3 3 (p+m+m)

2 2 3 (s+s+m)*

2 3 3  (s+m+m)

3 3 3 (m+m+m)

*Questionable loadouts. Let's discuss it in the section 3 below. 

How much additional possible loadouts this would add (here: 'p' for the 'Primary', 's' for the 'Secondary', 'm' for the 'Melee')? [Not counting repeats, as before.]

6p*5p*8m/2! + 6p*8m*7m/2! + 7s*6s*8m/2! + 7s *8m*7m/2! + 8m *7m*6m/3! = totally 706, plus to the existing 336 loadouts.

2b.) Medic.

He has 4 primaries, 4 secondaries and 5 melees.

Probable schemes would be:

1 1 3 (p+p+m)*

1 3 3 (p+m+m)*

2 2 3 (s+s+m)*

2 3 3  (s+m+m)

3 3 3 (m+m+m)*

*Questionable loadouts. Let's discuss it in the section 3 below.  

How much additional possible loadouts this would add (here: 'p' for the 'Primary', 's' for the 'Secondary', 'm' for the 'Melee')? [Not counting repeats, as before.]

4p*3p*5m/2! + 4p*5m*4m/2! + 4s*3s*5m/2! + 4s *5m*4m/2! + 5m *4m*3m/3! = totally 150, plus to the existing 80 loadouts.

2c.) Spy. The  most difficult one. (The most important reason I've said at the beginning that this update could be separated for each class,  because, for example, this class combos would need a lot of testing.)

Spy has 5 secondaries (revolvers), 5 melee (knives), 3 secondary PDAs  (cloak devices) and 2 buildings (sappers) (1 primary PDA —  Disguise Kit — isn't noted here, as the similar PDAs weren't noticed for the Engineer). Each devices can be considered as primary or secondary.

How much additional...Wait a minute. How to consider all possibilities (schemes)? (Let's discuss all possible difficulties later, in the section 3, —like the possible problem "How to combine 2 cloak devices?" or "How to combine the Spycicle and another Knives?".)

Numbers —  as before — couldn't be used here for the schemes, that's why the abbr. are used (here: 's' for the 'Secondary', 'm' for the 'Melee'). 'sPDA' for the 'secondary PDA' and 'b' for 'Building'):

s + m + sPDA + b is the main in-game scheme (we don't add here a primary PDA — Disguise Kit).

So, the additional (29)schemes are these (with the description in brackets; the Disguise Kit is always available for the Spy, keep it mind, please):

1. s + s  + sPDA + b (2 revolvers,  cloak device, sapper) → 5*4*3*2 / 2! = 120/2 = 60 loadouts;
2. m + m + sPDA + b (2 knives, cloak device, sapper) → 5*4*3*2 / 2! = 120/2 = 60 loadouts;
3. s + sPDA + sPDA + b (1 revolver, no knives, 2 cloak devices, sapper) → 5*3*2*2 / 2! = 60/2 = 30 loadouts;
4. m + sPDA + sPDA + b (no revolvers, 2 cloak devices, sapper) → 5*3*2*2 / 2! = 60/2 = 30;
5. s + sPDA + b + b (1 revolver, no knives, 1 cloak device, both sappers) → 5*3*2*1 / 2! = 30/2 = 15 loadouts;
6. m  + sPDA + b + b (1 knife, no revolvers, 1 cloak device, both sappers)  → 5*3*2*1 / 2! = 30/2 = 15 loadouts;
7. s +s + s + s (4 revolvers, no knives, no cloak devices, no sappers) → 5*4*3*2 / 4! = 5 loadouts;
8. s+ s + s + m (3 revolvers, 1 knife) → 5*4*3*5 / 3! = 300/6 = 50 loadouts;
9. s + s + m +m (2 revolvers, 2 knives) → 5*4*5*4 / (2!*2!) = 400/4 = 100 loadouts;
10. s + m +m +m (1 revolver, 3 knives)  → 5*5*4*3 / 3! = 300/6 = 50 loadouts;
11. m + m + m + m (4 knives) → 5*4*3*2 / 4! = 5 loadouts;
12. s + sPDA + sPDA + sPDA (revolver and 3 cloak devices) →  5*3*2*1 / 3! = 5 loadouts;
13. m + sPDA + sPDA + sPDA (knife and 3 cloak devices) → 5*3*2*1 / 3! = 5 loadouts;
14. s + s + sPDA + sPDA (2 revolvers and 2 cloak devices) → 5*4*3*2 / (2!*2!) = 30 loadouts;
15. s + m + sPDA + sPDA (1 revolver, 1 knife and 2 cloak devices) → 5*5*3*2 / 2! = 75 loadouts;
16. m + m + sPDA + sPDA (2 knives and 2 cloak devices) → 5*4*3*2 / (2!*2!) = 30 loadouts;
17. s + s + b + b (2 revolvers, both sappers) → 5*4*2*1 / (2!*2!) = 10 loadouts;
18. s + m + b + b (revolver and knife, both sappers) → 5*5*2*1 / 2! = 25 loadouts;
19. m + m + b + b (2 knives, both sappers) → 5*4*2*1 / (2!*2!) = 10 loadouts;
20. s + s + s + sPDA (3 revolvers, 1 cloak device, no sappers or knives) → 5*4*3*3 / 3! = 180/6 =30;
21. s + s + m + sPDA (2 revolvers, 1 knife, 1 cloak device, no sappers) → 5*4*5*3 / 2! = 300/2 = 150 loadouts;
22. s + m + m + sPDA (1 revolver, 2 knives, 1 cloak device, no sappers) → 5*4*5*3 / 2! = 300/2 = 150 loadouts;
23. m + m + m + sPDA (3 knives, 1 cloak device, no sappers or revolvers) → 5*4*3*3 / 3! = 180/6 = 30 loadouts;
24. s + s + s + b (3 revolvers, 1 sapper, no cloak devices or knives)  → 5*4*3*2 / 3! = 120/6 = 20;
25. s + s + m + b (2 revolvers, 1 knife, 1 sapper, no cloak devices)  → 5*4*5*2 / 2! = 200/2 = 100;
26. s + m + m +b (1 revolver, 2 knives, 1 sapper, no cloak devices) → 5*5*4*3 / 2! = 200/2 = 100;
27. m + m + m + b (3 knives, 1 sapper, no cloak devices or revolvers)  → 5*4*3*2 / 3! = 120/6 = 20;
28. sPDA + sPDA + sPDA + b (no weapons, 3 cloak devices and 1 sapper) → 3*2*1*2/3! = 2;
29. sPDA + sPDA + b + b (no weapons, 2 cloak devices and 2 sappers) → 3*2*2*1/(2! * 2!) = 3.
    

    

    3 cloak devices and a Sapper

Total amount: 60 + 60 + 30 + 30 + 15+ 15 + 5+ 50 + 100 + 50 + 5 + 5+ 5 + 30 + 75 + 30 + 10 + 25 + 10 + 30 + 150 + 150 + 30 + 20 + 100 + 100 + 20 + 2 + 3 = 1215, plus to the existing 150 loadouts.

Section 3) Possible issues? Let's go class by class. (Of course, not all possible issues are listed. And not everywhere the thing '[Solvable.]' is added.)

• All classes

Most important one: do the same category weapon share an ammunition?

(For example, 2 Flareguns for the Pyro.)

• Scout

No issues?! Pistols + Pistols,  Pistols + 2 Bats, 2-3 Bats, drinks and throwables; all combos seem ok.

[With different charge-meters, of course. i.e. Solvable.]

• Soldier

2 different shotguns are ok. Shotgun and some of the Banners combo is ok.

What about the 2 Banners (or 1 Banner + B.A.S.E. Jumper) combination? How are they shown on the back of the Soldier? Equip region glitch?! (Same — for the boots.)

How you gain the charge for 2 Banners and activate them? Do they combine or have 2 different charge-meters? (Possibly, 2 different.) [Solvable.]

2 Banners would lead to some imbalance (though Soldier himself doesn't have a Rocket Launcher, his team — under the effect of 2 Banners, like 2 different Soldiers activated 2 different Banners simultaneously.) 

Gunboats' effect is useless without the Rocket Launcher.

2 or 3 Melees? Pain Train would be seen as a must-have, probably.

• Pyro

"Mmph..."

Flamethrower and 2 Melees?!

• Demoman

«*Questionable Loadouts". Because 2 GL(Grenade Launchers) + 1 Melee or 2 SL (Sticky Launchers) + 1 Melee would be not-balanced. (How you detonate different stickies? How much of them would you have at maximum out there on the map? Do you have a separated ammo for GLs/SLs?)»

What about Shields' overlapping? [Solvable.]

• Heavy

Seems like no possible issues.

Shotguns, eatables, different fists and melees seem ok in combos.

• Engineer

An issue, as it was noticed before in 1a, with the Gunslinger and other Melees.

«How to combine the  Gunslinger with other Melees? Which Sentry would be placed then? Destroy the Sentry if another Melee is chosen?! Or is it just not allowed to place another Sentry while one is already placed? Or is it allowed Mini-Sentry with a usual Sentry (this case is unbalanced!)?  

If the s+m+m, p+m+m and m+m+m schemes are excluded, then only the scheme s+s+m is the only available one (adds 15 additional loadouts).»

Also — an issue with the stats of the Melees. (Posssible.)  [Solvable. Multiplication of the stats is already in-game.]

• Medic

2 healguns? 

2 shooting weapons with no healing device (except the Crossbow)? 

3 melees with no healing devices?

• Sniper

2 passive wearables with  the Equip Region glitch?

• Spy

Any one of the 29 schemes, noted above, consists of possible issues (especially those 2 last ones, 'no weapons'). Need, probably, lots of tests.

How to combine 2 cloak devices? [Solvable. Additional key/mouse button.]

How to combine the Spycicle and another Knives? [Solvable. Eg., no problem at all. The player trades for it with -1 item replaced by 2nd knife.]

New Recipe: Switch Tokens

Slot Token < --- > Class Token
Simply done!

Possible (subjective) example of the recipes:
Some Slot Token + Same slot weapon, any Class --> the Token of this Class
Some Class Token + Same class weapon, any Slot --> the Token of this Slot

SPUF thread

"possible solution on how to make the metal even more useful"

Just imagined how it could be done (though I was thinking about the same theme* a lot, during veeery looong time):
1. Make it so that the crafted items would give any special stats on any special map / gamemode (new or old) (For example, on MvM: the crafted weapons give extra cash per destroyed bot).
2. If the item has been crafted by its owner (the person who equips it), the bonus is even bigger (or it is even changed in a quality, not just in a quantity).
This way people would have choice to buy the key and open the chest OR to craft the hat / weapon to use it with the (additional) bonuses. And the metal would have more options to be used!
(Again: on special map or in the gamemode, not during the vanilla gameplay!)

(*Of course, the item_origin and/or the item_quality could be used in some user's modification, to make the gameplay more variative. "Crafted" items (even cosmetic ones) could have 1 kind of bonus, and the items "Found in crate", or "Gifted", would have another bonus, in very specific gamemode and map. On that special map, even hats would give special bonuses to their wearer.)

Source (my post in the thread "Let's talk: Keys", on SPUF)

Bender. Ostap Bender.

The great combinator!
Lowered damage, headshot even may not kill the target. No charge-meter.

Let's A is a headshot, and B is a bodyshot!

This system with combos  (Inspired by another meaning of the word <<Combo>> from another (not mine) idea) can work this way:
For 3:
AAA, AAB, ABA, ABB, BAA, BAB, BBA, BBB. Only 8 Combos.
For 4:
AAAA, AAAB, AABA, AABB, ABAA, ABAB, ABBA, ABBB, BAAA, BAAB, BABA, BABB, BBAA, BBAB, BBBA, BBBB. Now - 16 Combos.

Possible ideas for the combos:
1) Next shot is critical.
2) Next shot will cover the enemy into the Jarate.
3) Next shot will ignite the enemy.
4) Next shot will cover the enemy into the MadMilk.
5) Next shot will make the enemy bleeding.
6) Next shot will heal Sniper for N HP.
7) Next shot will give the target a metal.
8) Next shot will give additional charge to the target.
50% of the combos can have zero bonus, 50% - as a one written above.

Headshot/Bodyshot made by you can be shown while you're scoping, so you always know what you can choose next, for the necessary combo.

Cluster Bombs ("Math-Riotka").

Only small parts explode. The bigger ones just separate to the smaller parts. There is a delay between the separating explosions.

Hurting Moving.

Damage per second (-HP/sec), if you move under the negative effect (it is like Bleeding, if you don't stand on one place). Must be shown to the person, who was hit by this weapon (special icon on the HUD).

New tool: Speculum.

It is a special tool that makes your cosmetic item being mirrored (left <--> right).
Additional (prefix-)style (or - better word - version) "Mirrored" will be added to the item (so you can switch between normal and mirrored versions of the item). If the item has the styles, the version and the style can be combined.
For example, if you make the Mirrored Googly Gazer, you will have it for the left eye (the reflexion in the plane, which parts the body vertically - to the left and to the right). Also, the styles of the Googly Gazer can be switched too.

New tool: Rotator.

The hat can be rotated around the vertical axis. The minimum angle can be 15 degree (the option is:15, 30, 45...150, 165, 180 degree - clockwise or anticlockwise).
Special string can be added: "Angle: XX (CW/CCW)"(only if the tool has been used), like the "Paint: Y" or "Style: Z".

Sleep, my darling Sentry...

What if the Sandman's ball attract the attention of the enemy's sentry for a couple of seconds?
Throw the ball and run while the Sentry is shooting the ball.
Remember: don't run between the ball and the Sentry - because it chooses the closest enemy.

Idea for Minigun.

The spreading decreases after the 1st hit or kill (?plus xN speed of shooting ?)

Idea for Medigun

The closer to the mate, the faster it heals. Or vice versa.
Just an idea.

"Sentries's Fault".

Disguise Kit that attract Sentries' attention to you, though they don't shoot.
Maybe, it works only few seconds.

Just an idea, needs more thinking.

/to be continued.../

Map of the requests (2nd slot) for Engineer.

You see the images of the requests (Need a sentry here! Need a teleport here!) on this Map.
You can disable somebody's spamming requests (there is an option on this Map).
It could be special 2D Map or special Glasses to see 3D-images (like that ones which you see, while being Trained by Coach).

Mechanics for the Rocket Launcher.

Next shoot only after the previous rocket has been exploded.

Gum (2nd slot) for Scout.

You need to charge it |___|
Then, while you have full bar |===|, the second bar is shown and starts decharging.
The less 2nd , the less "hit" of the Gum.

What about stats? I don't know, just a mechanics for this item.

/to be continued.../

Existing Slots. New and old ideas.

This post is about existing slots and idea about placing (old/new) items into them.

I.Action Slot
1)old (existing) items:
a) hats -- throw up, if you win (random exchange with others, who threw the hat too?);
b) weapon -- if somebody wins you, he takes yours, though he must placed his weapon too;
c) scrap metal(lvl 1) -- drop the ammo-box (only engy?);
d) alien parasite* -- throw it onto the enemy (the same effect as in Alien Swarm); if the enemy dies, then the parasite returns, else - it dies;

2)new...

II.Misc-Slot
1)old (existing) items:
a) hats -- mini-version of the hat is input into the special frame [{icon of the hAt}]
b) weapon - mini-version of the weapon [{icon of the weapon}] warns your enemy that you have a skill with this weapon;
2)new...

/to be continued.../

Hats for gaining the Sets?!..No - Sets for gaining the Hats!

Polycount Hats for Spy/Soldier/Scout/Pyro give you the Set and additional stats. I call it "Hats for (gaining) the Sets" (and I'll call them here like a "Hets").
Now imagine that if you complete any Set, you gain the Hat. New hat. Not giftable, not tradeable, not craftable. It's even not in your backpack. Because it's shown when you complete the Set. I call it "Sets for (gaining) the Hats" (I'll call such a Hats this way - "Sats").
Example: you choose the loadout for your Engineer: Frontier Justice, Wrangler and Gunslinger. Then you choose the option in the settings "Show the Hat when the items are in the Set"(<<Show the "Sat">>) and mark the classes. Ok, Engineer. Now, when your loadout is similar to the one above, you have a "Sat" on your Head. For example, it can be called "Engineer's Update "Sat". I don't want to imagine the example how it could look like. The one obvious thing: it's not like any existing Hat or Het, which can drop into your backpack. The purpose of this "Sat" is to show another players what weapons you are using at the moment.

That's all. Simple and good idea, I think.
P.S. Possibly, I will add examples in future. Just for fun!
P.P.S.Quick note: it could be placed into the Action Slot...

Bonk! (Small Idea)

If you were attacked under the Bonk! Effect, it's duration will be longer.
See that "MISSED!"? Stop attacking this Scout!

Gamemode: MultiArena.

The idea is simple: your team and enemies have N lifes (like in Mario). In general, it's Arena.

Project 'Itemcrossing'

If you know about the existing Bookcrossing, it's clearer to see analogy.
The idea is: leave[drop?] your item anywhere on the map, so it starts it's journey through multiple backpacks.
It could have special quality (also read my post with ideas of new kinds of  Quality) "Itemcrossing". It can't be deleted, crafted, traded. It just can be in your backpack - or you can crop it too. How does it work? Well, you put your weapon - which you want to start it's journey - into Crafting window, choose "Change quality to : <<Itemcrossing>>", then you need to place it into Action Slot. Then you can drop your weapon(or any other item) on the map at any moment you want. If nobody has taken the item, it return into your backpack. After next player has taken this item, the level of the item grows up (the level is 1, at the beginning), showing how much backpacks it was inside. Also, it could have the name of the starter (the person which made this item "Itemcrossing"). So, you can use this item for your own necessities. Or you can continue Itemcrossing. NB: if you have this kind of item in your backpack, you have a week before it dissapears in your backpack and returns to the starter's backpack. Just play enough and use this item!
-------------------------------------------------------------
Plus I had similar idea: Puzzle Fragments, that are traveling between backpacks. And you need to collect enough parts to solve Puzzle inside your backpack. But there will be special post for this idea, with details (the general part, though, is already here, in these sentences above, under the line).